Philip E. C
Director - Client Solutions - AdvantageIQ - Northeast/Mid-Atlantic Region
How do you capture and store wind turbine power (non-battery)?
A client of mine has a question on how to capture wind power for use in periods when the wind is not cooperating?. I have seen many schemes...but would like to hear from many of those in the energy alternative network or in Europe...Thanks
Answers (11)
Use it to pump water into a raised reservoir or behind a dam
Lift sand into a container for later release.
Lift a very large object that is then lowered.
Use it to grind organic matter that can then be used for biodeisel.
The real problem, if I remember my physics for way back when, is that any change in the nature of the energy causes a loss of something like 90% of the energy. The loss is from the actions needed to make the change.
The better solution is to feed a grid at high demand that will let you take back later when you have no wind. This is why the grids need to be large enough to have a fairly constant demand that can be predicted or anticipated.
If you placed your turbine near water (which they often are), it would be possible to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen.
The hydrogen could be used to run hydrogen cells (for cars etc), while the oxygen could be used to increase efficiency in existing combustion power stations.
Michael S. B
Information Security Manager
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I've always thought that using the turbine power to generate ice in a subterranean chamber would work. Then utilize the heat difference in a heat engine system to generate work.
The interesting thing about this is that you have a the incidental benefit of a "walk-in freezer", as well as a repository of "cold". Properly insulated and sealed, even periods of low power generation should be easily handled.
Sam E
CEO at Watch Network/BMTCi and LLB Law Student
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The wind's variability has been one of the sticking points for wind power growth in the UK energy market. Given the UK's famously inclement weather and its island status -- which offers unrivalled offshore facility - you might think that wind power capacity was being filled at a rate of knots.
But in reality, wind power currently contributes about one percent of the UK's energy needs, with around 2000 on and offshore turbines up and running.
The prospects for wind power could be greatly enhanced if cost-effective storage could be implemented. Some, like Minnesota based Xcel Energy, are putting their faith in new battery technology. But a UK professor, Seamus Garvey thinks he might have found another solution -- storing energy in flexible containers on the ocean floor.
Professor Garvey's idea of using Compressed Air Energy Storage (CAES) isn't a new one, but his methods are.
Traditionally, CAES stows energy in a vast underground reservoir. During peak energy hours, air is released powering a turbine, which in turn produces electricity. There are currently only two CAES sites in the world - in Huntorf, Germany and in McIntosh, Alabama.
Based at Nottingham University, Professor Garvey said "I was thinking about how textile composites and textile structures might be relevant in the context of renewable energy," he told CNN.
In a moment of inspiration, Garvey realized that air could be compressed using a wind turbine or a wave-powered device.
"Drawing a mass down within the blade of the piston itself compresses the air," he said.
The prospects for his energy storage idea with tidal power are perhaps even better. "With tidal power you can use a hydraulic ram. This can take a large flow of water at a low pressure. Out of that it can then give you a small flow of water at a high pressure."
Naturally, storing vast amounts of air requires vast amounts of storage. Professor Garvey envisages a cone-like structure stretching 50 meters wide at the top to around 80 meters across at the base.
The bags are made of a combination of plastics. "A polyester reinforcement at the core with probably a polythene layer around that," Garvey said.
At a depth of around 600 meters, Professor Garvey calculates that the bags would be able to store 25 megajoules of energy for every meter cubed. The deep water is essential. "Only in deep water, where the pressure is greatest, are the bags a good economic proposition," Garvey explained.
Although there is an additional cost in fixing reinforcement cables and ballast, Garvey believes the future economic prospects for his invention are good.
He plans to put the storage bags through smaller scale land-based tests, with four-meter-diameter bags, to prove that his calculations are right.
The centrifugal force required to compress the air is too great for small wind turbines to cope with, so much larger turbines will have to be installed for the project to realize its goals.
Currently, wind turbines are situated in relatively shallow water -- around 40 meters. So how will the project work if the bags need to be at a depth of 600 meters?
Well, a series of pipes will link turbine and bag and Professor Garvey believes the distances, in Europe at least, wouldn't have to be too long.
Research into floating turbines is underway and, as Professor Garvey points out there are steep ocean shelves off the west coast of France and Portugal and around the entire periphery of the Mediterranean. "You could put wind turbines on these shelves and within a few hundred meters, or kilometers you could be in 600-meter-deep water," he said.
Professor Garvey, who has secured a three year grant from German energy provider E.ON, is confident that with the right funding the UK can achieve its stated aim of providing 20 percent of its energy from renewables by 2020.
Professor Garvey anticipates his prototypes will be operating within 18 months. (See BBC Article)
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Maybe you can make H2 with the energy you are producing. This can later be efficiently converted into electricity.
I do not know this field as well as an engineer in power generation but I would say that Roger has it partially correct. I would suggest an article from wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_storage
My current favorite is hydrogen.
I recently came across information about this aspect. In Norway they have tried to use the extra energy generated when wind is cooperating to electrolyze water and trap hydrogen in fuel cell. This fuel cell is then used to give power when wind is not cooperating.
I believe the pilot project was done in Norway in the island Utsira where they used this project to provide power to 10 houses and they found it to be 80-85% reliable.
Hi,
generically, there is only two obvious choices: chemically or physically which leaves the field wide open. You next step could be to look at your applications. What is the energy usage profile: a steady usage such as a computer screen will require a different principles than a variable energy usage such as a car since the latter will draw alot of energy during acceleration whereas the screen only once when switching on. A few smart ways have been developed for the former that smothen out the peak energy consumption.
Then, there are generic ways - as described above with storing motion energy in weight moved against gravity.
Then there are more ingenious ways such as [1] storage in cooling houses where you are using a temperature variation delay due to the insulation can be used to reduce the power consumption during peak hours.
Another interesting way is to use [2] compressed air to store motion energy. Energy is build up during deceleration and released during aceleration.
A very old method is the night storage heater that use the cheaper night time price for electricity and store the heat in heavy thermal stores.
Back at university I was working on a project of a sun tracker. I must admit that I forget the source, but there was a discusssion about solar energy in Europe as power source. And the study concluded that the combination of solar and wind power provided a very even coverage. In many occasions wind is replacing sun light - so it does make sense.
Hope this helps
R.
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Michael P
Principal Engineer, Automotive Fuel Cell Cooperation Inc.
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Good, Fast, or Cheap? (And no batteries) Does the battery constraint imply that the power is mechanical and not electrical?
Good: Feed back to the grid (very efficient and you don't have to store it). Sell it to the utility for more than you buy electricity back for. Make money to pay for your wind turbine.
Fast: Change your mind about batteries (or make H2 and use fuel cells if you have to store a great deal of power).
Cheap: Pump water as suggested.
Chris L
Director, Translational Research and Technology at Memory Pharmaceuticals
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It would think it largely depends on the scale you are looking at. At a residential scale, the restriction against battery power seems ill-advised when suitable solutions are currently available that will likely scale to small industrial settings (see PowerTower R at link below). In a larger industrial setting, many more options may become feasible, such as mechanical storage of potential energy (water or flywheel) or elctrochemical storage via hydrolysis and fuel cells. It also depends on what form of energy you want after storage (e.g. electrical, mechanical, etc.). Not enough information given for a meaningful answer.
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Sandeep R
Enterprise Architecture, Technology and Solutions Consulting at Infosys Technologies Ltd.
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Wondering why nobody is suggesting the flywheel.
