Kurt -- There aren't many situations when working in the hotel room would be appropriate and hard to imagine any when drinking would be. Maybe IF there were no public areas of the hotel (i.e. lounge, lobby) in which to work AND there was a separate work area in the room (i.e. suite with separate bedroom) AND there was an urgent need to work on a project AND the two knew each other very well. Maybe. Alcohol???? Shame on the guy for asking the woman into that situation and shame on her for staying there.

posted August 11, 2007

I agree with the husband that this is unprofessional. A boss (whether male or female) should not put a subordinate in such a potentially awkward situation or vice versa.

posted August 11, 2007

I'm torn on this one. I can imagine (and have been in) situations where the need for privacy to work on a project is necessary, and perhaps the hotel had no meeting rooms or conference rooms available. Having a drink to celebrate finishing--also a clearly foreseeable outcome.

But unless I had known the man a very long time, or he was in a role that I trusted (such as a priest), I wouldn't go to a man's hotel room alone (I didn't even go to the hotel room of a man I'd been dating for months alone).

This probably just made you more confused :)

posted August 11, 2007

Hi

I would not say it is taboo. However, I would certainly say it is avoidable. It is best to avoid certain situations, where you dont know what the outcome or even perceived outcome would be, no matter how much this particular "boss" is trusted.

Even if there was a need to discuss the project in private and a conference room was not available at the hotel - the lobby was considered too open a space for the discussion, perhaps the cocktails could have been avoided.

I agree with Marc completely on this.

The husband is not justified,if he does not trust his wife. However, if it was just a matter of putting his view across then so be it.

Best
Lubna

posted August 11, 2007

There is no easy answers to this. First of all the woman is married and undoubtedly already knew what her hsubands reaction would be. In a marriage everything we do should be based on how we would feel if the same thing was done to us. Assuming she knew he would not appreciate it she shouldn't have done it, she disrespected him in a bad way. Keep in mind also that people do these things often intentonally to spite the spouse and your friend was the victim of this.

On the other hand, a couple should be able to trust one another enough that this would not be an issue.

It really comes down to resect for one another and for ones marriage. I do not feel a married woman or man should join another of the opposite sex in a hotel room. It is in very poor taste. Single people are fine.

I also think your friend was foolish for even suggesting it. You really don't "know" what a person is capable of and she could have accused him of almost anything.



Sheilah

posted August 11, 2007

Funny, I find fault with both participants.

First, shame on the male supervisor for putting a female subordinate in an akward position. What the heck was he thinking. I don't buy the excuse that there is nowhere private to meet and work. I bet he could find a dozen places within a five square mile area.

I'm not thrilled with the woman's judgement for not suggesting an alternative meeting place, and for having a drink in the man's room. Unless this was a college student or somebody very early in her career, I would probably not buy the "did not know better" excuse.

So I guess that I agree with the husband on this one.

posted August 11, 2007

Hi Kurt

Taboo? No
Smart? No

I would recommend that your friend doesn't put himself in a situation where his professionalism is questioned. I am sure his intentions were correct, but the situation could have caused him professional and personal damage.

Mike

Mike

posted August 11, 2007

I don't know about 'taboo', bit it's pretty inappropriate by my standards. There HAS to be some other more public solution to needing to finish up on work. The whole world is wired (or wireless) now, so the excuse about needing access to a computer, etc. wouldn't hack it anymore. There are hotel lounges, restaurants and lobby areas where a quiet corner could be found to continue discussions. If the work is that top secret, caution could be taken not to speak too loudly or requesting a table away from potential listeners could be a solution.

There are perceptions made all the time by someone passing by as a woman enters a man's hotel room, regardless of the reasons. So, it's not only about what is (or isn't) going on in the room, but what perceptions might be leapt to. It's a small world and we never know who we might see that we know, or who might see us. Better to be safe than end up on YouTube or someother website having had your picture snapped on someone's camera phone entering or leaving a man's hotel room.

In spite of advances made by women in the work place and at executive levels, it is never the male who is found at fault or fired over something like this.

posted August 11, 2007

Kurt:

For appearances alone -- let's take the individuals out of the picture -- yes, this is a bad idea. See the husband's reaction? How would other people outside the room react? Doesn't matter what did or didn't happen in the room -- how did people outside perceive the situation? Those perceptions can make or break a work experience.

Personally, I hate to put myself in any kind of potential he said/she said situation. Even when the cleaning woman comes over when I'm home alone, I tend to leave the house -- just to protect myself.

Paranoid? Maybe. Safe? Absolutely.

Especially in a manager/subordinate relationship, business people need to be ultra-sensitive to perceptions about gender issues. Your friend might have had the best of intentions and conducted himself as a total professional. But he sure exercised bad judgment and opened himself up to horrible criticism.

best,

Tom

posted August 12, 2007

Kurt - Yes, it is unprofessional.

There have been many good answers to this question. Looking at it completely from the man's perspective:

As the woman's superior, it creates the appearance of impropriety. If someone had noticed, word would get out to the rest of his staff and this could cause problems within his organization for the woman. It is important when you lead a group of people that you avoid any type of situation that might affect interactions between the people that make up the group.

Another potential problem is that it has created a difficulty in her personal life. It is important as someone who manages people to avoid creating scenarios where the dynamics of the office affect the personal lives of staff.

Finally, one has to watch not only their conduct, but how it will be perceived and talked about.

posted August 12, 2007

Hi Kurt
Others have said enough ... let me just point out that during the question itself you felt the need to say it was "perfectly innocent situation" ... would you have used the words even if the said meeting was in a public place or work place?

I would say your friend was certainly out of line - with the least charge being of indiscretion. However the choices of the lady and the reaction of the husband should rather not be judged since these are within the context of their relationship (even I reiterate, the lady's choice - she chooses based on what she feels appropriate considering her marital relationship) - which none of us are in a position to really know about.

Best Regards
Gautam

posted August 12, 2007

Taboo. Plenty of public places in hotels: lobby, restaurant, business center, gym. If privacy is required for business-sensitive issues, business center & gym are usually available & vacant. As we all know in the business world, reality doesn't matter, what matters is the appearance of impropriety.

posted August 12, 2007

Yes the husband was justified.
My husband trusts me and I trust him, and yet both of us would be upset in this situation!

Also, when it comes to ethical, moral or what may seem to be gray area's I have a saying "when in doubt - stay out". At best this was a gray area, to me it clearly was crossing the line of professionalism.

Both of them should have used common sense - which is not always so common.
Kathy Burzynski

posted August 12, 2007

I can see that the situation could be considered awkward and better be avoided.
However, I find it quite sad that we should restrict ouselves from using the most convenient solution to do some work and work in a noisy environment instead or drive somehere else or whatever the solution might have been. A man and woman should be able to work with each other the same way as 2 men or 2 women can.
I really think this should be possible in an open society. maybe while using some measures to take some of the awkwardness out of teh situation:
- as a superior I would only be the one to suggest this, if I was sure that the woman would object if she didn't feel o.k. with it. I'd rather hope that she would suggest this a smost convenient solution. (I committed the sin described above and in those cases I knew the woman - and her husband - well enough to know she'd suggest only a place she wanted to work)
- Make sure someone knows about it. Maybe a colleague. Maybe she could have called her husband "By teh way, I'll have some work to do with James and we are using his room. If you want to call me, use thsi number: ...)
- What about leaving the door open?
- Ideally: including a third colleague.
- Certainly leaving taking the coctails in the bar
I know my suggestions may not fit all in every situation and may see as childish as the whole thing. My point is, that there isn't black and white only and that you normally should be able to arrange circumstances so that we are not slaves of our own social governance.

As to the husband: if my wife would react like this in such a situation with me in the role of the subordinate, I'd have a serious conversation with her the next day for this lack of trust. After all: if I was up to something, I certainly would not have answered the phone and told the whole story.

Depending on teh country, the boss may have risked being taken to court quite easily under false allegations - but this only means he isn't prudent from a juristical point af view, not that he did somethin immoral.

posted August 13, 2007

Hi Kurt,
If you have to ask if it is appropriate chances are it is inappropriate. A better choice would be to work in the hotel lobby.

posted August 13, 2007

Kurt - I shared your question with our VP of HR, Director of Recuriting, and Manager of Training (each of who are woman). They all agreed that in this case both of these individuals used very poor judgement. As her Manager, he should have never created that situation (even with the best of intentions as perception and rumors typically start out of "inocent" situations).

posted August 13, 2007

The story reveals two issues in my mind: first the relationship with her husband. It seems to me he was projecting jealously or some other insecurity on the situation of which the husband and wife need to dig deeper into their private relationship. I am not sure he was worried about her professional relationship.

"Me thinks though doth protest too much..." Should opposite-sex colleagues head up to a hotel room, work together and then have a cocktail -- all innocent. Perception is reality and there will always be tongues a wagging. Choose the lobby, conference room or hotel bar for those sorts of meetings or at the very least include a number of people to the situation.

Just one professional gal's opinion.

posted August 13, 2007

Hello Kurt - I'm going to have to agree with Mike Clark on this issue. . .
Is it taboo - I don't believe so anymore
Is it smart - When you consider other people's feelings, insecurities and opinions, you get a resounding no.

It would show far more integrity to reserve a table in the dining room or even in the bar [as long as it's quite] to complete a project.

posted August 13, 2007

Hi

I feel this is absolutely unprofessional. Firstly, any woman who went to the hotel room of a man she hasn't known for a very long time and completely trusts, is putting herself in harms way for no good reason. Secondly, even if innocent, these type of incidents are how the office rumour starts and could potentially damage the reputation of both parties.

posted August 14, 2007

Speaking as a married and devoted Christian Kurt, the answer to your question is obvious. The husband is totally justified. His wife should have never done that. A conference room or office at the work place would have been more appropriate, but a room at the hotel? Definitely not.

Eric

posted August 15, 2007